Freelance modelling

[takashi]

a new enemy fighter:

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2716/itlivesci3.png

pretty nice for a begginer. this MIGHT be the second most encountered one. i'll ask axem or Dabrain first....

[Star Yoshi]

wow takashi, nice work on that...

*takes a random guess at what it is*

Well.... ummm.... looks like something out of Freelancer actually... :/ Kinda like a mix of a Liberty and Outcast ship *if anyone knows WHAT I'm talking about*

Anywho, this looks REALLY nice at this point. ^_^

[Syphe D. Mar]

Nice... it's simple and effective. But did you PM it to DaBrain? There should be a thread about models. May increase activity of the board.

[Axem]

Thread split.

Anyway, nice first model. Could use some more detail, but a nice start. ;)

[takashi]

update!

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9225/yipyipyipyiptj9.png

the cockpit is more obvious, and there is place for an engine now.

but i still need to texture....

ps: yes, i did PM it to him

[Syphe D. Mar]

The first one looks sleek and seems like a single ship. The second looks disjointed and is feels like a two-part figure. Still nice, though.

[Water]

a new enemy fighter:

pretty nice for a begginer. this MIGHT be the second most encountered one.

Yup that's where I started.

ok go here http://www.industrial-meshes.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=3

Read about selecting faces and extruding regions. On the next page look at subdividing a face and merging points. There is a lot more on these pages but start with these items.

Next step is to move the current wings to a new layer ( hit m and then 2)

Using the techniques described above try to grow some wings out of the body of the ship. Also do what you have done to the cockpit, to the rest of the ship. This is more about using extra tools.

Don't worry about texturing yet. Aim for an interesting ship first. Having a basic understanding of the modeling tools provides entry into other areas like unwraping and texturing.

See how you go

[takashi]

just today, i went to UV map it, and the left wing and engine canopy are messed up:

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/4266/messedupmappingfu7.png

[Water]

just today, i went to UV map it, and the left wing and engine canopy are messed up:


Only UV map a model when you have finished modeling.

The model is way too close to the basic reference model. The only part that is you is the front. Finish modeling it first. There should be nothing recognizable left of the original design.

Once you have done that I will be happy to help you with the uv mapping.;)

[takashi]

i hope its fine with mall spaces beteewn wings and such....i know some programs will ruin the model if things overlap.

[DaBrain]

This is a pretty good start at modelling.

It doesn't meet the SoL quality standards yet, but it's very promising.

Keep at it. ;)

[Water]

i hope its fine with mall spaces beteewn wings and such....i know some programs will ruin the model if things overlap.

Freespace original had some issues with that. The FSO people sorted it out.

The pages I suggested you look at will allow you to grow the wings from the side of the main body. The main reason for doing this is to improve your modeling skills. As you progress you will need those skills as well as a few others to solve "how do I do that" problems.

[takashi]

thanks water! not only did i make the wings part of the ship now, but i can also finaly moddel those gun turrets from course 3! i'll keep you posted on progress.


edit: ship update! less smooth edges allow for a starfox look!

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4206/updatejh1.png

ps: does a mod mind if this thread be named "freelancer moddeling"?

[Water]

thanks water! not only did i make the wings part of the ship now, but i can also finaly moddel those gun turrets from course 3! i'll keep you posted on progress.


cool

Some new commands to use-

Select some faces on the body (in edit mode) hit w and choose subdivide.
This will give you more vertices to play with. Move some around to try give the body a more interesting shape.

Mode select icons (on the right hand side) You will get used to switching between these modes, as some times either face or edge mode is better for some modeling stuff.
vertex mode- edge mode- face mode- limit clipped mode
icons look like -
4 yellow dots - 2 lines - triangle -cube

You can also use scale to increase the size in different areas. (use from front view)

Useful new commands in edit mode
b -window select
bb - like a paintbrush select- mouse wheel increases/decreases size
numpad . - zoom in on selected
alt b - select window area and hide everything else. alt b to return to normal.

You don't need to change the thread name, it's not important.

[DaBrain]

Very nice progress :yes:


ps: does a mod mind if this thread be named "freelancer moddeling"?

Not at all. ;)

[takashi]

if it wasnt, i would end up going off topic and posting every moddel i finish.

oh, and i got truespace 3.2 yesterday, if that changes anything.

[Water]

oh, and i got truespace 3.2 yesterday, if that changes anything.

Truespace 3.2 is about 9 years old. It is obsolete. The only reason for its hanging around in freespace modding is its ability to set models up to be ready for POFing. The current version is 7

It is a tool that can get the job done, so it gets used. Max users have a plugin of some sort.

[takashi]

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/369/finishedatlastxo2.png

well, thats pretty close to finished!

[Star Dragon]

Takashi that's cool. How long have you been Modeling?

I'm sure if you refined it more in the future both the modeling and texturing, they'd reconsider it (give it a new evaluation)...

Oh and although you solved your issue, I just discovered somthing in TS 3.2 that wll help a lot of my future conversions. Since you had one side of your ship with a problem delete that HALF, select the good half, Copy it and mirror it! That works for me. :D

(but then again I am the ETERNAL 3D NOOB! Someday Cobra will surpass me!!! But not yet, I got three more Romulans in the works He He) :P

[takashi]

i've been moddeling a week, since you wanted to know. (blender is the god of all 3d)

thanks, now i can make that texturing more detailed on both sides! (no idea how i forgot that trick)

[bud]

so... can I show a picture of one of my models here too?

[DaBrain]

Sure!

I think we could also start adding model requests for freelancer modders here.

If you guys are interested in that. ;)

[takashi]

alll i need is some artwork and a concept.

[bud]

awesome

well here it is it's not all that good looking, but the whole inside is done.

I did do this in google sketchup, only because I didn't want to take the time to use GMax or something like that.downloadCAKD48EM

[Water]

I did do this in google sketchup, only because I didn't want to take the time to use GMax or something like that.downloadCAKD48EM

Try doing your image link again. :)

[Star Dragon]

IF they are random concepts how about throwing them up in the FS2 modding section? That area needs more activity. ;)

[takashi]

currently working on: star wolf capital ship

FINISHED!: tryout texture 1: wolfen esque+glow map



http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2594/wolfenesquetexturewithgld1.png

please ingnore how crappy truespaces' light system makes it look.

[DaBrain]

alll i need is some artwork and a concept.

This would be the first one. (Credits for this quick concept goes to XG Fox
)http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h157/xanavifox/CornerianSatelliteconcept-XG.jpg


It's a cornerian satellite. Flying around in the cornerian orbit and therefor in the demo(!)

It might also serve some purposes in multiplayer missions, so don't underestimate the importance of the model.

I prefer modelling with a concept. It forces you to do the harder things, you normally avoid when you model without concept.

I also prefer concepts from other artists, cause I'm a horrible concept artist. :lol:

[takashi]

this may be an interesting model....

to blender! *takes "job"*

[bud]

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=3d6e05a1a72299c2c07978dd4f6d9463&ctyp=sm&cv=p5.0.300

heres a link instead.

the FA1-1 is more recent, and colored.

[takashi]

sattelite.blend - 0.12MB (http://www.zshare.net/download/sattelite-blend.html)

sattelite finished. the devolopers can do conversions and such.

special stuff: the pannels are alinged so they can cacthg more sun like a real sattelite (and shoot lasers XD) the rods that connect the pannels to the main body have more detail to ^_^

oh, and the red flashing lights can be done as an effect in freespace thanks to muzzleflashes.

ps: Bud, you have a thing for making capital ships, dont you? *imagines thousands of greenies swarming from the docking bay*

[bud]

yes i do, though i do like making fighters too, but the inside isn't as fun.

and if you have google sketchup you should go through them in the walk mode, it's the only way to see all of the rooms in it.

[takashi]

i have a tendencey with making fighters out of three cubes. to for the wings and one for the hulll. i use cylinders for detail. you kinda need to extrude and scale alot......

btw, that sattelite is one cylinder.

[DaBrain]

Can you post pics, or export the model as something else? (3ds, obj, cob)

I don't have Blender and I wouldn't know how to use it. ;)

[Water]

sattelite.blend - 0.12MB (http://www.zshare.net/download/sattelite-blend.html)

sattelite finished. the devolopers can do conversions and such.

special stuff: the pannels are alinged so they can cacthg more sun like a real sattelite (and shoot lasers XD) the rods that connect the pannels to the main body have more detail to ^_^


You need to check where the panels fit to their support. Any time you see fuzzy crosshatching in blender - means you have faces intersecting badly.

The panels are too thick. And the support for the panels are not as visually interesting as the concept sketch.

You are on the right track :) - but you are only half way there.

For most people here the best format to export to is obj, 3ds or cob.

[takashi]

your friendly untextured nova bomb.zip - 0.03MB (http://www.zshare.net/download/your-friendly-untextured-nova-bomb-zip.html)

finished: nova bomb + half done UV map

water - i lack 3d studio, and exports always end up with a "cannot determine file type" error. i guess some one else can try.

[Water]

your friendly untextured nova bomb.zip - 0.03MB (http://www.zshare.net/download/your-friendly-untextured-nova-bomb-zip.html)

finished: nova bomb + half done UV map

water - i lack 3d studio, and exports always end up with a "cannot determine file type" error. i guess some one else can try.

This post took a long time to write. You need to work through it, understand it and then post a better model. It will take you to the next level of modeling ability. :naughty:

Ok -Your export problem is secondary to your normal problems.

What is a normal problem?
(now is a good time to google normal)

You have been having an issue with being able to see through parts of a model. This is a problem with some of the faces having their normals facing the wrong way.

Explanation:
-You can see a face with its normal pointing towards you.
-A face with its normal pointing away from you becomes invisible.

In the modeling window blender treats all faces as double sided. You can always see everything. Even if the normals are the wrong way. In games single sided faces are *much* faster to render than double sided faces. Any face that is given a transparent texture like glass is ok to be double sided. Every thing else should be single sided.

In the UV face select window Blender treats the normals as single sided. If you can't see a face then you will need to "flip" the face.

http://www.game-warden.com/forum/imagehosting/95845a8321e69005.jpg

Go to the modeling window -get into face mode - Set the show normal button.

Now pick a face that is facing the wrong way and flip it (key w then select flip normals)

The fast way is to select all the faces and press "Ctrl n"

If you still have problems with invisible faces, then Blender can't figure out which parts are outside. This means you have problems with the model having internal faces that need to be removed. This requires a lot more skill on your part.

[1] The model has a problem with overlapping faces (in green) need to be more careful when extruding. [2] Holes present top and bottom. [3] In the picture the selected face will be visible from this side but invisible viewed from the other side.

IMPORTANT ->You have to remember to model as if everything has a thickness.

Note: A model can only be considered finished when it contains no errors. Until it reaches that stage call it a WIP (work in progress) :)

[takashi]

im guessing my extrude technique is why. blender refused to fill a gap (with shift+F), so i extruded and scaled down. i guess that method requires afterwork.

[Water]

im guessing my extrude technique is why. blender refused to fill a gap (with shift+F), so i extruded and scaled down. i guess that method requires afterwork.

True -

With that object - extrude and scale are all you should need -starting from the hole at the front till you arrive at the rear hole. Sometimes just f works better in some places than shift+F

[takashi]

the nova bomb is nearing the mapping stage, the sattelite is being re-worked, and i have a special suprise for the devolopers.

[Water]

the nova bomb is nearing the mapping stage, the sattelite is being re-worked, and i have a special suprise for the devolopers.

cool

Post the nova bomb before you start mapping.

[takashi]

blender file (http://www.zshare.net/download/nova-bomb-blend.html)

3ds file (http://www.zshare.net/download/nova-bomb-3ds.html)

those things are a cinch.

[AtomicN]

I UV mapped takashi nova bomb plus texture.
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/6523/sidecz8.jpg
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7739/topgz3.jpg

[takashi]

hm....

make the wording less curved (try a sf64 esque font) and its perfect! all thats needed is a download link after that!

[takashi]

update!:

remember this? (http://www.zshare.net/download/finished-zip.html)

optional "white fang" texture (http://www.zshare.net/download/arrowhead2-1-blendcircle-tga.html)

[Water]

I UV mapped takashi nova bomb plus texture.


:D Would really like to see what you could do for the test ship. The link works now.

[Water]

update!:

remember this?

Heh VA [TI] has been showing you cool mirroring techniques in Blender.

But go back to - [i could use some help with converting a .cob model into a .pof] thread - reread his post #19 Paragraph 2, first line.

Once you do this you will have a complete model instead one half "real" and the other half "fake"

The next step would be to do a better UV map. The idea is to have as much of the UV map covered as possible. Why? - Only the pixels in your unwrap end up on the model. More pixels = more detail.

[AtomicN]

Would really like to see what you could do for the test ship. The link works now.

Alright I will work something up. Also about updated model looks sweat had trouble with the v.1 I will post something later in the day. Its 1:09AM XD.

[Water]

Alright I will work something up. Also about updated model looks sweat had trouble with the v.1 I will post something later in the day. Its 1:09AM XD.

It would be great if you aim for a good job, rather than a fast one. Show us what you can do. If you get stuck design wise, I've got three different methods - one of which should work for you.

Not many get through the first stages of texturing. Usually not knowing what questions to ask, or which methods to use. Any probs just post :nod: - It can take me some time to reply. NZ GMT+13

Which paint and model programs will you be using?

[AtomicN]

I will be using photoshop.
1) As of right now im just color coding it which section go where.
2) Once That is done I plan to color it (exactly how I want it)
3) Then texture it.
The color scheme will stay true to what the preview pic you posted.

[takashi]

i think he asked which moddeling programs too...

[Water]

I will be using photoshop.
1) As of right now im just color coding it which section go where.
2) Once That is done I plan to color it (exactly how I want it)
3) Then texture it.
The color scheme will stay true to what the preview pic you posted.

This may help in setting up the first part in photo shop
http://www.game-warden.com/forum/showpost.php?p=53811&postcount=21

Just so there is no confusion DaBrain did all the hard work creating the model and collecting the reference pictures. All I've done is redo the UV map and add an ambient occlusion map.

[Zexron]

Here is one satellite. (1600 polys) Not UV mapped yet.
Is this along the lines of the satellite you were looking for?

http://www.game-warden.com/forum/imagehosting/172545b29f179a120.jpg

[takashi]

he must have a better program. blender cant do that without my computer slowing waaay down.

[Taristin]

It's looking like a satelite, but I dont see any real reason for that to be 1600 polies... your round bits would be better suited to be made from objects with less sides IMO (Though, this is personal preference, the team may be less concerned with polycount)

[takashi]

that, and the concept art called for a less rouded version.

[DaBrain]

Here is one satellite. (1600 polys) Not UV mapped yet.
Is this along the lines of the satellite you were looking for?

http://www.game-warden.com/forum/imagehosting/172545b29f179a120.jpg

Well, that satellite will look just fine with textures.
Anyway... 1600 polies is really a bit *too* much.

If you could reduce it to 1000 that would be ok. 600 would be even better. I guess the smooth parts are way too smooth.

Actually I wouldn't mind using 1600 polies for it, but it's not using them efficently.


Also... I'm sorry I didn't tell you a poly limit before. I completely forgot about that.

[Zexron]

Well, that satellite will look just fine with textures.
Anyway... 1600 polies is really a bit *too* much.

If you could reduce it to 1000 that would be ok. 600 would be even better. I guess the smooth parts are way too smooth.

Actually I wouldn't mind using 1600 polies for it, but it's not using them efficently.


OK i can reduce the poly count, I have the panels able to be rotated.
The cylinder sides are 16, should be able to reduce it.

[Zexron]

It's looking like a satelite, but I dont see any real reason for that to be 1600 polies... your round bits would be better suited to be made from objects with less sides IMO (Though, this is personal preference, the team may be less concerned with polycount)

This is my second model :D , The cylinders are 16 sided, what would you suggest?

[Zexron]

that, and the concept art called for a less rouded version.

Have you looked at the concept art it says "Thrusters (8 sided nose cone, 4 sides with one thruster each" and the rest of the concept art looks pretty round to me and i also see no comments on it stating it should be a less rounded version :naughty: .

I had a look at your version of the model and i don't see many things on it that the concept art has. eg where is the satellite dish and thrusters so before you quote on mine saying its not right, you should look at yours and see if it follows.

Yes the modeling program i am using is in fact Blender :eek2:

[Taristin]

An 8 sided cyllinder would be fine. 12 even passable... How many segments do you have on that 16-sider?

[Zexron]

An 8 sided cyllinder would be fine. 12 even passable... How many segments do you have on that 16-sider?

Maybe 6 segments.
Ok ill try go with 12 sides

Here is the model view
http://www.game-warden.com/forum/imagehosting/172545b2cea5cefdd.jpg

[Taristin]

Just as a suggestion, you could shave a lot of polies by doing something like this (although this is quite exagerated) but the panels do waste a lot of polies.

[takashi]

that flower-like protrusion wastes alot of polies and could slow down an older computer or a new computer with a crappy conecction (the sattelite is suppposed to be in multiplayer)

[Axem]

No no no no and no.

What affects performance the most is textures and subobjects. Polygon count isn't that dangerous any more.

We've never said satellites would be used in multiplayer, and a higher poly count would not make gameplay suffer over a crappy connection.

[takashi]

check the page that contains the concept art....


alll i need is some artwork and a concept.

This would be the first one. (Credits for this quick concept goes to XG Fox
)http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h1...concept-XG.jpg


It's a cornerian satellite. Flying around in the cornerian orbit and therefor in the demo(!)

It might also serve some purposes in multiplayer missions, so don't underestimate the importance of the model.

I prefer modelling with a concept. It forces you to do the harder things, you normally avoid when you model without concept.

I also prefer concepts from other artists, cause I'm a horrible concept artist.

[Axem]

My mistake.

My other points still stand though.

[Taristin]

No no no no and no.

What affects performance the most is textures and subobjects. Polygon count isn't that dangerous any more.

We've never said satellites would be used in multiplayer, and a higher poly count would not make gameplay suffer over a crappy connection.


The point is efficient modelling. Just because the system can handle 4000 polies doesnt mean that a satellite should have that many. Being wasteful isn't beneficial.

And I did say that my example was a bit extreme.

[takashi]

"arwings have many polies."

"cornerian frigates have few polies"

i can only say that with how balanced the polygon count is in this game, its a good idea to keep it that way. what with the supposed high RAM usage of planetary missions and all.

[Taristin]

*ahem...*

Let's just leave official explanations to officials, shall we? ;)

[Axem]

Yeah I suppose. Its just that other factors are more likely to slow down the game than poly count. But more polygons do equal more lighting calculations and whatnot. Well anyway all my points are nuked.

[Taristin]

slow down [...] a new computer with a crappy conecction (the sattelite is suppposed to be in multiplayer)


Umm. No. Model data is not sent over the internet when playing multiplayer missions. No game does that. Ever.

[Zexron]

Hows 988 polys?:biggrin1: and i stayed with the 16 sided cylinder

http://www.game-warden.com/forum/imagehosting/172545b3027e544e1.jpg

[Taristin]

Much better. :yes:

[DaBrain]

"arwings have many polies."

"cornerian frigates have few polies"

i can only say that with how balanced the polygon count is in this game, its a good idea to keep it that way. what with the supposed high RAM usage of planetary missions and all.

You'll only see very few Arwings on the screen, but a lot of cornerian frigates.

The high gfx ram useage? Lets say it's because FS2 wasn't ment to have landscapes and we have certain quality standards.

[takashi]

then those missions are either short or optional, or you can choose "planetary quality level"? sorta like setting the LOD to low or high in FreeSpace?

[takashi]

doube post to bring you...

katinan mothership.3ds (http://www.zshare.net/download/katinan-mothership-3ds.html)

[XG Fox]

I actually threw this satellite together in Viz at school in my spare time... (Viz is almost exactly the same as Max, it seems)

Big picture, but otherwise the antennas wouldn't show up, they're pretty thin. And yeah, I know... cheap textures.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h157/xanavifox/CameraSatellite2.jpg

[Syphe D. Mar]

Pretty... and yeah. From this picture, the satellite would look better in a red-black color scheme.

Before it was on paper, I thought it was your average space satellite (definition of a satellite) that fires a rail gun shot. Now, it doesn't look like it can shoot.

[Fox_McCloud3232]

wow that look good. but one problem, will this model FIT in the game?