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Syphe D. Mar
01-06-2007, 02:40 AM
Mechs?
Yes, I WAS talking about mechs.

Anyway, our mechs are NOT animated, and units that have multi-forms can change when you hit appropriate mapped key.
Then just make them unbreakable or unchangeable (except for a simple death animation), if that's what you're saying. Star Fox 64 mechs are don't change their position unless they're destroyed (they can only rotate their entire model). I'm not asking for a Gundam game with every parts being moveable and breakable.

IF you are suppose to have choices (each mission has to be fredded with that detail for players).

No idea what that means, but make it Multiplayer only. I only meant to suggest it as a bonus feature or, if possible, used by Andross's rebels.

AI's won't change on their own and everything has to be scripted, a LOT of work!

Do the Arwings need to be scripted? If not, why mechs? Also, so is the game. Sounds like it's even MORE work. But eh, the discussion was resolved a few days ago.

Oh, and that reminds me. Can someone release the story earlier than the game, possibly before the game is even beginning to develop a story? I would really want to see how accurate the story could be.

Axem
01-06-2007, 05:34 AM
Subobject animation with lua scripting opens up many possibilities with regards to mech movement.

Wanderer was working on barrel rolls, and all he needed was some scripting stuff to be fixed. Yes, you'll probably get the swirly effect from the wingtips too.

And no, there will be no release of the story. A good number of us are Starfox fans, and we're quite capable of keeping a story together. Besides, we don't want to spoil anything.

StarSlayer
01-06-2007, 05:55 AM
Oh, and that reminds me. Can someone release the story earlier than the game, possibly before the game is even beginning to develop a story? I would really want to see how accurate the story could be.

Son I think you just had a brain fart writing that statement

How could they release a story before they have begun developing it? Axem's gonna send you a blank pm?

AqueousShadow
01-06-2007, 11:57 AM
:lol:

Rest assured, we will produce an enjoyable experience.

Unknown Target
01-06-2007, 09:56 PM
Oh, and that reminds me. Can someone release the story earlier than the game, possibly before the game is even beginning to develop a story? I would really want to see how accurate the story could be.

Sorry, I just had to pop in here from BTRL to say this...

Um...what?

Star Yoshi
01-06-2007, 10:57 PM
He wants to know what the storyline will be for the game's Campaign missions :/

Syphe D. Mar
01-09-2007, 04:59 AM
*focusing on Arwing* The wings look... different. 0_o Both of the screenshots are really showin' the same aircraft?

The buildings looks realistic and technical (a plus), but the floor looks... dull. And isn't Corneria City's tiles/panels/boards/whatever-they-use-to-make-the-floor white or is that just Solar (or the Lylat's star {by the way, is Solar a star or a planet? [rhetorical question]}) ?

@StarSlayer: I think someone stated the meaning of the last quote already, but I'm gonna say this anway.

What are you preparing if you don't have a story? In America (not sure where you're living), we call it "Brain Storming". Making a story just by going without thinking about it is messy, clumsy, and disorganized. They should have a story before making the missions. :|

@DaBrain: I know. But I'd just like to know the in-game script before the game is actually being made. For example, let's say that you get Falco as a Star Fox member 2 years before Adventures. That would contradict the fact that he was gone four years ago, but if we're shown the in-game script, we would be able to point that out. That's just one obvious example. Some other mistakes may be harder to find, but still existing.

Anyway, I don't really need it, but you know how people make mistakes, especially the developers (hence, the invention of the "Editor"). The Zelda series is an obvious example. They made so many mistakes, they had to turn back their words and made many changes to the older games.

And that's why I want to see a script, for the public especially. More people seeing and pointing out mistakes, the better. Not gonna be helpful if you're asking several people who never heard of Star Fox. And if you release the demo when you're already half-way through with one big problem, that won't be good.

StarSlayer
01-09-2007, 06:26 AM
Its not a question of knowing what brain storming is nor a grasp of proper writing technique, if one has a brain stem they would know that to release a story before it has been developed is an physical impossibility. Your request was a brainfart because it requires breaking the rules that make up our universe. The only way the team could fulfill a request to release a story before its been developed is to in fact release nothing since it would not exist.

As for the etiquette of making such demands, DaBrain and his team are rather well versed in both mod development and Starfox. Insisting that they are not is rather rude considering their credentials and your lack of them. Rabid fanboyism does not qualify you to be the defacto editor of the mod.

DaBrain
01-09-2007, 09:26 AM
*focusing on Arwing* The wings look... different. 0_o Both of the screenshots are really showin' the same aircraft?

The buildings looks realistic and technical (a plus), but the floor looks... dull. And isn't Corneria City's tiles/panels/boards/whatever-they-use-to-make-the-floor white or is that just Solar (or the Lylat's star {by the way, is Solar a star or a planet? [rhetorical question]}) ?

@StarSlayer: I think someone stated the meaning of the last quote already, but I'm gonna say this anway.

What are you preparing if you don't have a story? In America (not sure where you're living), we call it "Brain Storming". Making a story just by going without thinking about it is messy, clumsy, and disorganized. They should have a story before making the missions. :|

@DaBrain: I know. But I'd just like to know the in-game script before the game is actually being made. For example, let's say that you get Falco as a Star Fox member 2 years before Adventures. That would contradict the fact that he was gone four years ago, but if we're shown the in-game script, we would be able to point that out. That's just one obvious example. Some other mistakes may be harder to find, but still existing.

Anyway, I don't really need it, but you know how people make mistakes, especially the developers (hence, the invention of the "Editor"). The Zelda series is an obvious example. They made so many mistakes, they had to turn back their words and made many changes to the older games.

And that's why I want to see a script, for the public especially. More people seeing and pointing out mistakes, the better. Not gonna be helpful if you're asking several people who never heard of Star Fox. And if you release the demo when you're already half-way through with one big problem, that won't be good.

Depending on the game you make, you don't need a complete story to start working on the game. SoL is about fun, rather than about the story.
That doesn't mean the story can be bad. Infact it has some pretty nice twists.
We don't have a full detailed story yet though. All we have is the main plot, we start working on the details, as we need them. We're willing to change the story, if that means as mission can be more fun for the player.
Of course, the main plot won't be changed and we got a layout for the next missions will work on, but we're pretty free to change the route Fox will take through the Lylat system on his... uhm... 'mission'. ;)

And to the 'developers make mistakes thing':
Of course developers make mistakes, but try to create a game without becoming a developer.
Everybody makes mistakes. Still I do belive that the developers are the most qualified guys to develop their game.

Fan input is a good thing, but you can't listen to it all the time.
In fact listening to it too much isn't a good idea. You'll end up with a game without a real 'core'. Just merging in 'cool ideas' won't make a good game.
It's about ideas that 'fit' into the concept of the game, we didn't have.


We won't hand out the script. Probably not even after the release.
The story is supposed to be told as part of the game and not in any other way.

If it works or not can't be estimated by the script, but only by playing the game.
Don't worry about any bad story mistakes. Most of the members are StarFox fans. I don't think we'd all miss a really bad errors.

Brockenstein
01-09-2007, 11:42 AM
Ummm dude wth? Okay first off I would rather seem them working on making the game beautiful then try to work on a great story. I am NOT a Star Fox fan boy I never really got into the story in fact I don't remember any of the story cuz I think I always skipped that part in the later games.

Now of course there are people that do want a good story and love this story in all the other games like my best friend. BUT he would rather see a poorly made storyline than an ugly badly scripted game.

You talk about brain storming YES you should do that with the story when you get to the story. You can make the core of the game before you do story now you make a few missions with out story as like side missions and stuff like that or whatever for the demo. Not everyone does things in the same order does that mean they are bad or the game will be bad? NO that depends on how well the devs work with that order and how good their skill is.

Of course they will make mistakes I don't know that any dev has ever not made a mistake especially before the game comes out. ALOT of devs put out their not finished work to get gamers opinions. They are called Alpha and Beta Testing.

The demo is basically one of those stages testing. So just hold your horses and wait you will get to see how it works perfectly fine. Now if you don't like the way the story develops in the end well thats too bad cuz personally all I care about is its game play and look. Also people that have never heard of Star Fox will be drawn to it because of those reasons as well.

Unknown Target
01-09-2007, 12:20 PM
*focusing on Arwing* The wings look... different. 0_o Both of the screenshots are really showin' the same aircraft?

The buildings looks realistic and technical (a plus), but the floor looks... dull. And isn't Corneria City's tiles/panels/boards/whatever-they-use-to-make-the-floor white or is that just Solar (or the Lylat's star {by the way, is Solar a star or a planet? [rhetorical question]}) ?

@StarSlayer: I think someone stated the meaning of the last quote already, but I'm gonna say this anway.

What are you preparing if you don't have a story? In America (not sure where you're living), we call it "Brain Storming". Making a story just by going without thinking about it is messy, clumsy, and disorganized. They should have a story before making the missions. :|

@DaBrain: I know. But I'd just like to know the in-game script before the game is actually being made. For example, let's say that you get Falco as a Star Fox member 2 years before Adventures. That would contradict the fact that he was gone four years ago, but if we're shown the in-game script, we would be able to point that out. That's just one obvious example. Some other mistakes may be harder to find, but still existing.

Anyway, I don't really need it, but you know how people make mistakes, especially the developers (hence, the invention of the "Editor"). The Zelda series is an obvious example. They made so many mistakes, they had to turn back their words and made many changes to the older games.

And that's why I want to see a script, for the public especially. More people seeing and pointing out mistakes, the better. Not gonna be helpful if you're asking several people who never heard of Star Fox. And if you release the demo when you're already half-way through with one big problem, that won't be good.

Who died and made you king of mods?

AqueousShadow
01-10-2007, 02:43 AM
Ok, I've held my tongue long enough, but as lead writer and member of the team, I'm going to put my foot down. I'm not sure if you even realize it, but you are being incredibly rude to the developers here and to the community around you. Do you not recognize that from their responses to your posts?

Not only are you being rude, but you're making a ridiculous request. We simply cannot give you the script. Even if we could, why would we? No one hands out scripts of a story of anything to anyone who isn't part of the specific process, much less to anyone who isn't even remotely related to the subject. What good is a book if an author hands out bits and pieces of it before he publishes his book? What good is a movie, barring remakes/adaptations/etc., if the audience knows exactly how it's going to end and how it's going to get there? It just doesn't make sense. It's called SPOILING the story.

What happens when some people think that a story just wasn't written well or just didn't come out right? Oh right, it's an opinion, because ultimately it was produced the way the developers envisioned it.

And I'm not the only one even working on the story. Things are laid out and they are worked on constantly. But I'm not going any further because surprise, suprise! You don't deserve an explanation!

SGT_R22eR
01-10-2007, 03:59 AM
*focusing on Arwing* The wings look... different. 0_o Both of the screenshots are really showin' the same aircraft?

The buildings looks realistic and technical (a plus), but the floor looks... dull. And isn't Corneria City's tiles/panels/boards/whatever-they-use-to-make-the-floor white or is that just Solar (or the Lylat's star {by the way, is Solar a star or a planet? [rhetorical question]}) ?

@StarSlayer: I think someone stated the meaning of the last quote already, but I'm gonna say this anway.

What are you preparing if you don't have a story? In America (not sure where you're living), we call it "Brain Storming". Making a story just by going without thinking about it is messy, clumsy, and disorganized. They should have a story before making the missions. :|

@DaBrain: I know. But I'd just like to know the in-game script before the game is actually being made. For example, let's say that you get Falco as a Star Fox member 2 years before Adventures. That would contradict the fact that he was gone four years ago, but if we're shown the in-game script, we would be able to point that out. That's just one obvious example. Some other mistakes may be harder to find, but still existing.

Anyway, I don't really need it, but you know how people make mistakes, especially the developers (hence, the invention of the "Editor"). The Zelda series is an obvious example. They made so many mistakes, they had to turn back their words and made many changes to the older games.

And that's why I want to see a script, for the public especially. More people seeing and pointing out mistakes, the better. Not gonna be helpful if you're asking several people who never heard of Star Fox. And if you release the demo when you're already half-way through with one big problem, that won't be good.


1. You never release a script for a game or a movie or a novel, maybe only a small synopsis, but then again, it may reveal to much, preventing people to actually enjoy the media (said game, novel or film)... You may release a brief intro to the storyline, but even then, it isn't stuck in cement...

2. You don't release a demo when you are half-way through, you only release a demo when models, missions, sounds, music, etc is done... True that not all models are necessary, nor the missions, but what you will release, must be polished as hell, otherwise people will be disappointed by the performance of the dev crew and won't really be hyped for the full release.

3. Don't make me get angry..... Or the Vilian Byatch with Mutagenic Drugs will come after you.... even if she is sexy, it won't be to fullfil your dreams, so stop bothering with such non-sense the people working on SoL.

Star Dragon
01-10-2007, 01:44 PM
Syphe: Clearly you've never been to a mod forum before. Such a request anywhere else would have you laughed at...

As for how "Accurate" it will be is entirely up to the DEVS. See DEVS write a story based on their goals and vision of how they think it should be.

Sometimes this means following canon to the letter, other times it means throwing out the book and writing a whole new one. It all depends on what that team's mission statement/philosophy is in regards to the project they are sacrificing time/energy and effort to make happen.

Reviews come after you've played a game, not before. (then people can biatch various issues they have with the work.)


To be frank, aside from a few instances of playing SNES at the mall in the 80's for like 10mins at a time, I really don't remember all that much of Starfox. Now what I do know is that this team will produce something that will make me go "Whoa!" and to me that's more than just good enough.

karajorma
01-10-2007, 05:38 PM
Okay guys. You ve all had your fun let's stop bashing Syphe unless he sticks his foot in it again in his reply at least.

Axem
01-10-2007, 08:48 PM
This has nothing to do with screenshots, so I'm going to split the thread now. It won't be locked (yet), but lets not let it get to that. Mmkay?

Syphe D. Mar
01-11-2007, 01:57 AM
I'm gonna try and answer all the major crticisms thrown at me. Starting from the first. Anything else I didn't cover, consider me bashed. Also, I didn't want to sound rude, except the part dealing with "brain fart".



Insisting that they are not is rather rude considering their credentials and your lack of them. Rabid fanboyism does not qualify you to be the defacto editor of the mod.


I didn't and never said that they aren't. :| If you meant the last two paragraphs, I'm talking aboubt random people who just plays for the game.

Now of course there are people that do want a good story and love this story in all the other games like my best friend. BUT he would rather see a poorly made storyline than an ugly badly scripted game.

Why have one over the other when we could try to balance 'em out? But eh, I'll go along. Can't think of anything for the moment.


Who died and made you king of mods?

I'm a king? Cool. Now make me a milkshake. :|

Not only are you being rude, but you're making a ridiculous request. We simply cannot give you the script. Even if we could, why would we? No one hands out scripts of a story of anything to anyone who isn't part of the specific process, much less to anyone who isn't even remotely related to the subject. What good is a book if an author hands out bits and pieces of it before he publishes his book? What good is a movie, barring remakes/adaptations/etc., if the audience knows exactly how it's going to end and how it's going to get there? It just doesn't make sense. It's called SPOILING the story.


Answering point where you of me getting a script: Of course it's ridiculous. That's why I'm asking. I don't expect to ever see it. And I'm not here, "This story sucks, change it." More like, "There's innaccuracies in the story from the main games. Just pointing that out." Why won't I ask after the games release? Because no one would bother anymore. I'll take the accept everything else.


1. You never release a script for a game or a movie or a novel, maybe only a small synopsis, but then again, it may reveal to much, preventing people to actually enjoy the media (said game, novel or film)... You may release a brief intro to the storyline, but even then, it isn't stuck in cement...

2. You don't release a demo when you are half-way through, you only release a demo when models, missions, sounds, music, etc is done... True that not all models are necessary, nor the missions, but what you will release, must be polished as hell, otherwise people will be disappointed by the performance of the dev crew and won't really be hyped for the full release.

3. Don't make me get angry..... Or the Vilian Byatch with Mutagenic Drugs will come after you.... even if she is sexy, it won't be to fullfil your dreams, so stop bothering with such non-sense the people working on SoL.


Ah, easy quote. Me like.

1. Er, maybe I should have said synopsis instead. -1 for incorrect and misuse of vocabulary.

2. Um... aren't missions part of the story? Unless the demo's a training mode or a shoot-everything-in-your-sight with no story mode, I don't see how that works. Also, most games also have Beta testers (not me). That's supposed to give out some information about the story too.

3. I'm a child. Maybe that's the reason why my suggestions are "below average" and "primitive". But no matter what, I'm not planning on doing drugs, except for medicine (Cure for cold = impossible).

Syphe: Clearly you've never been to a mod forum before. Such a request anywhere else would have you laughed at...

As for how "Accurate" it will be is entirely up to the DEVS. See DEVS write a story based on their goals and vision of how they think it should be.


First mod forum. Very true. I can't ask about this? That sucks...

Isn't this mod supposed to be as accurate as possible? I can't really remember, but whatever.



By the way, can someone point out where I'm being rude other than the "brainfart" target? -_- Also, now that the thread has been moved, I might as well ask about this. How long will the game be? More than Assault?

Water
01-11-2007, 10:49 AM
By the way, can someone point out where I'm being rude other than the "brainfart" target?

It's more about your insistence in getting answers.

The people here really like to answer all questions thrown at them. But some of the ones you ask will not be answered at this stage. This puts us in a bind. Wanting to answer but not wanting to spoil story surprises. End result it bugs the crap out of people. :o

You do seem to have a wealth of knowledge, but a little patience will help us out immensely. :)

AqueousShadow
01-11-2007, 10:51 AM
I can imagine some sort of frustration on your part, but please do us a favor and try to imagine the frustration on ours.

Sorry if I lost patience with you, but man.

DaBrain
01-11-2007, 08:07 PM
It's more about your insistence in getting answers.

The people here really like to answer all questions thrown at them. But some of the ones you ask will not be answered at this stage. This puts us in a bind. Wanting to answer but not wanting to spoil story surprises. End result it bugs the crap out of people. :o

You do seem to have a wealth of knowledge, but a little patience will help us out immensely. :)

Very well said.

I think we've answered some questions, you would never get an answer to from other mod teams.

We're really intersted in fan input. And we've even handed out some of our old models to two other mods.

We'r keeping a large part of our develpment progess public, by releasing video clips and screenshots. It's not easy to keep this up and still surprise the players later.
We'll at least keep the most important part of the story secret... as well as some other things. :D

takashi
01-12-2007, 02:16 AM
major story issue: assault arwing

how to fix: change the desing to make it look more like a prototype...and add a custom arwing. give peppy the modded assault arwig, fox the custom, falco the original, and slippy the 64. ta-da! one story-compliant squadron!

Syphe D. Mar
01-12-2007, 02:34 AM
But this game takes place before Adventures, which is in turn, before Assault. Also, the Assault Arwing is about 2x bigger than the 64 one.

Star Fox 2 had something different, though. There were 3 different types of Arwings. Gerneral-Purpose, Heavy-Assault, and Interceptor, but we could just have everyone use one Arwing (official comic follows the 64 design, and that's still before Falco's flight). The Arwing from the screenshot looks fitting. Besides, if it weren't for Command, everyone would be usin' the same thing.

takashi
01-12-2007, 04:04 AM
if it werent for 2, there would be no command. if it werent for 64, there would be no adventres. if it werent for who ever notices something wrong, shadows of lylat will be a command replacement. then jrystal would disapear..... maybe no one should point stuff out then. syphe, your a genius!

DaBrain
01-12-2007, 12:46 PM
We've already discussed this topic a long time ago. And we came up with a solution.

You'll use the SF64 Arwing in the first part of the story. And yes... the Assault Arwing is a prototype, but it's not quite that simple. ;)

In the demo, you'll only see it in multiplayer.

StarSlayer
01-12-2007, 04:24 PM
If Omni's Arwing doesnt make it in I will use your guts to grease my tank treads.

strike911
01-12-2007, 05:47 PM
Well, on a side note, the Arwings are extremely satisfying to fly around... and now that I think about it, the story is very practical minded when setting the origins and use of the Arwings. It all makes sense, I promise.

takashi
01-12-2007, 07:52 PM
i stand by my custom arwing for fox idea as always...maybe just for cutscenes.

AqueousShadow
01-12-2007, 10:28 PM
DaBrain is being nice and already letting you know too much.

So be happy with the info :D

strike911
01-12-2007, 10:57 PM
DaBrain is being nice and already letting you know too much.

So be happy with the info :D

qfe. :D Preach on bruthah.

takashi
01-14-2007, 01:14 AM
i need freespace 2 ;_; *glares at FS1* you cant handle high poly arwings...

FS1: *ulp*