On Mission Design

[ShadowWolf_IH]

For you guys out there who fred, what are your thoughts/advice/questions for mission building?

[karajorma]

One thing I find interesting is that I don't hear many "How do I do x" questions about FRED these days. When I joined the VBB I used to hear that sort of thing all the time. Is it just that we're mostly vets and know how to do most things?

[ShadowWolf_IH]

I agree that we don't have as many new guys asking those questions. Maybe the F/A is a cause for that decline? We have some talent coming out of there.

[karajorma]

I noticed it before FA. In fact I started the FA to get some of that back :) I suppose my FAQ does answer a lot of them. I guess I'm a victim of my own success :D

That said I've been answering a few questions about use of variables and the when-argument SEXP recently. The SCP is creating a bunch of new SEXP's that no one knows how to use that well so we'll be seeing a few more questions of that sort coming up :)

Funny thing is that even I'm caught on the hop occassionally. Until Sesq pointed out a way of using them I'd always ignored String Variables as useless because I'd always been trying to use them in the wrong way.

I reckon there are a whole bunch of people who are coming up with ideas that get rejected because they think FRED can't handle them.

[ShadowWolf_IH]

So maybe some advice and some sample variables is in order?

[Nuclear]

I agree with what's been said so far. There are fewer questions going around about FRED. This can mean a few things:


People are doing the walkthrough and understanding it.
People are reading older threads to answer their questions.
People just don't care to learn FRED and those that still do are crusty old vets.
People are being helped kindly by experienced FREDers and are getting better.


I'll say that the FA has done tremendously to boost FRED skills, and more people are becoming available for FREDing (especially a big help for fledgling new projects).

[MatthewPapa]

In my case the walkthrough gave me all the introduction I could ever need, so much so that I could probably FRED any sort of event/mission if I wanted to bad enough. Once you know the basic steps pretty well you can easily pick up what you need from that point.

That is just my story tho.

I do believe being able to understand FRED might have something with age/maturity. Is what I am thinking is that there is a minimum intelligence level needed to comprehend and use FRED effectively. I know for a fact I couldnt have FREDed anything worth shit back about 5-6 years ago when I first tried because

A. My attention span
B. Mathematical understanding (just pre-algebra if not lower at that point)
C. Problem solving and technical skills (allthough even they were still far above par for my age at the time)

I do believe that an older userbase may be to "blame"

[ShadowWolf_IH]

Matt i have to disagree with that. When i learned Lotus 123...on DOS, no laughing at my age :), i was told that some people have amn inate gift for grasping the logic that a programmer learned to write a program, and once you have grasped how he thinks, you have the program beaten. There are also alot of tricks that a new fredder doesn't know, things that can be taught to anyone.

[karajorma]

So maybe some advice and some sample variables is in order?

I'm adding more to FRED section of the FAQ in the v2 update. String variables and when-argument are definately going to get mentioned because at the moment there are probably only a handful of FREDders who use it.

I think a couple of examples on how to use them to make really dynamic missions is a good idea.

I think persistent variables need a good explaination too. I remember writing a detailed one on HLP once I'll have to look it up and add it.

[FusionStorm]

When will the v2 update be up?

[karajorma]

When it's done. I'm about halfway through at the moment. I've made a fair few changes to it :) Lots of new content so it's taking me quite a while.

The intro page of the FAQ should tell you what's done so far :)

[FusionStorm]

I still say the Faq that is out right now is way better than the Wiki, it also seams alot more user friendly. :)

[karajorma]

Thanks. In order to drag us back to the subject (or at least closer to it) what should I put up on mission design in the FRED section?

I've already added my 13 common FREDding mistakes article :) Some links to the VolitionWatch articles on why BOE missions don't work would probably be good. Anyone got any other ideas?

[ShadowWolf_IH]

maybe a link to the SCP FRED explanations? Maybe a section on Tricks and Tips. Things like the obscur rule that Sapphire found, or the ë stuff.

[karajorma]

Yeah. I'm planning on adding a warning for all the bugs I can find. The generalities of mission design are a little harder to get across though.

For instance on HLP we we having a little discussion on how much care you should take to make sure that the player can't break your mission by doing something that they really shouldn't have done.

Another good one is at what point does a mission become Endorish?